Today, I’m kicking off a new interview series here on Jacob All Trades, where I ask creative people I admire seven questions that are (hopefully) a bit different from what you might typically see them talk about in interviews. First up, Hilary Campbell of Cartoons by Hilary.
A quick note: the audio version of our interview should appear at the top of this post. The transcript that follows has been lightly edited for length and clarity — the audio is nearly 2x the length and has nearly all our original “Ums” and “Likes.”
Hillary is a cartoonist for the New Yorker. She's also a comedian, dancer, dog lover, and Law & Order enthusiast. Her debut graphic memoir, Murder Book, is out now, and her upcoming book, The Joy of Snacking, will be out next year. Hilary is also the creator of the What Did I Do Today Journal — which I highly recommend.
1. What is your earliest memory of wanting to live a creative life?
Hilary: This is gonna sound so pretentious: I really legitimately did want to be a cartoonist. So, my grandfather was golfing buddies with Charles Schultz.
Jacob: No way.
Hilary: Yeah. Growing up, Schultz would give him art all the time. So, there was just all of this original Snoopy and Charlie Brown art addressed to my mother, framed around the house.
Jacob: Oh my god.
Hilary: And I wanted to be that. But, I think I also legitimately just wanted to be Snoopy. I was like, Snoopy's so cool. You know? And he's like dancing all the time, but he also flies a plane, and he's a good golfer, but he's also the Easter Beagle. You know, this guy was like a one-man show. But, I got really obsessed with copying. That's how I learned to draw when I was little. I would try to make my own Snoopy comics all the time.
Jacob: Do you remember any of the any of them?
Hilary: I drew this little book where the cartoons get locked out of the book. They take a vacation from the book, they slip off the pages, and then they're out in the real world.
Jacob: I love it.
Hilary: But I was always good at art, too. So when you're good at art, and everyone notices, then you're like, I'm cool.
2. Do you have any routines, rituals, or processes that like get you in the zone?
Hilary: Yeah, I have a lot of them. Especially with the New Yorker and having to ideate around gag cartoons all the time while also trying to fill up my newsletter, write my book, and doing stand up. I have probably 500 sketchbooks.
I have 1-2 a month, and I’m never without them. I sleep next to it, it's in my bag, it's at the gym. If I'm like not near it for like 20 minutes, I'm repeating the thing in my head, like, “Oh god, oh god, you're gonna forget this really stupid joke that just came to you.”
I make these things called “today lists.” My whole process for that was turned into a journal you can purchase called What Did I Do Today.
Hilary: Um, which actually the whole process was turned into a journal that you can purchase. Um, Through Andrews MacNeil or at any bookstore or on Amazon called What Did I, What Did I Do Today is the name of the journal. Um, and it's um, it's about asking, like rather than, I feel like everything, it's always the like making the list of what you need to do.
Hilary: Everything is always about making a list of what you need to do. I make a list at the end of every day of everything I did that day. It’s just in bullet point form not to stress myself out. I do like an emotional download every day: what popped in my head, anything I saw, something someone said to me I thought was funny. Then, when I have writer’s block, I can look through it.
I teach this a lot in my workshop. Nothing is too big or too small. It could be the stupidest thing or depressing, but it's a big process for me. I find it really helpful to keep a log of where your thoughts are at because that's the only way you're going to write original humor or anything.
3. In another lifetime, what is a job you’d love to do but you’d be absolute shit at? A job you’d hate but think you’d be good at? And, a job you’d love and think you’d be great at?
Hilary: I’d love to be a mailman, but I’d be bad at it. I love walking. I'd play music. I'd probably be like the dancing mailman, you know? I would deliver the wrong mail constantly. I know it. I'd be like, oh my god, you're not Sarah?! But, I love to go on a walk, play music, be out and about, and I love small talk.
Jacob: How about hate but be good at?
Hilary: Everyone's always like, why don't you do animation? And I'm like, you're right. But, it's too long. I respect it. I think it's incredible. And then I'm like, I could do this.
I could take a course. I think I could do that, but I have a really big problem. I want to move on very quickly. That’s why I do gag cartoons.
Jacob: You don't even want to do more than one panel.
Hilary: Yeah. Like, I have a 350-page book I’m finishing right now that’s due in two weeks, and that kills me.
Jacob: And what’s a job completely unrelated to your field that you would love to do and think you’d be really good at?
Hilary: I want to be a Rockette. That's my answer. I've always wanted to be a Rockette. That's also the second thing I wanted to be growing up. I found my list from when I was seven, and it says I want to be a cartoonist, and then it says I want to be a Rockette.
4. What non-creative problem in the world do you think creative people and artists are uniquely positioned to solve?
Hilary: Oh my God. Helping with politics.
Jacob: In what way?
Hilary: Every campaign should have an artist on board. Not like, “Let’s make a new flyer.” Just like there, recording what's happening, having an emotional response to what's happening, and making art about it.
Jacob: The same way that photographers from different outlets are embedded in campaigns?
Hilary: Yes. Like, what's the feeling? I would love to be like on the road witnessing, reacting, recording, and drawing about that kind of stuff. My friend Sophia Warren was just at the DNC drawing there, and I thought that it was so awesome that she got to do that. There should be more of that.
5. What do you hope to have accomplished ten years from now?
Hilary: Oh, I hope I sell a show. Or, I should say I hope I sell a show and it sees the light of day.
Jacob: Yeah.
Hilary: That would be so cool. It's what I've been trying to do on top of everything else that I do. I really want to do adult animation. And, I hope the the industry will allow for it.
6. What is a thing you wish existed for you to enjoy as an audience member?
Hilary: Whoa. Okay. I wanna watch people in therapy, but live. Like, I love therapy shows. I love Couples Therapy. I love everything Esther Perel does. You learn so much from witnessing someone else's emotional journey. It would be illegal, obviously. I don't know who would ever have, like, a live audience therapy show. Or, that actually sounds like a cult now that I'm saying it.
Jacob: Yeah. I think you want to go to a Herbalife conference.
Hilary: I know, right? But I would be an audience member for therapy.
Jacob: What would be more interesting to you about it? If it was live versus…
Hilary: ‘Cause it's raw. Also, if it was like—now that I'm creating this fake thing—not taped…
Jacob: They can be more vulnerable because it’s never going to be published.
Hilary: Yeah, there's no record of it.
Jacob: I have an idea for a restaurant called Eavesdroppers. Imagine two long shaped restaurants next to each other… And down the middle is two-way glass, with two tops all the way down. In one restaurant you have headphones and you can see through the glass. And the other side, all the tables are mic’d. So you can just listen into people’s conversations. And everyone knows it.
Hilary: So you're like, coming in to be witnessed.
Jacob: Yeah, and it raises the question of, “Is it performative? Or are these real conversations?”
7. What’s something you’re excited about that you want more people to know about?
Jacob: It doesn’t have to have anything to do with you. For me, I’ve been going around telling everyone to watch Resident Alien.
Hilary: Chris Fleming isn't up and coming, but I’m obsessed with him. He makes me giggle, and he's so intelligent and so wild, and then he just, this video I watched this morning where he just ripped Colin Jost to threads, and I just was like, I woke up, and I'm already screaming, laughing. I love his comedy so much. But, it’s not necessarily a niche thing.
Jacob: It doesn't have to be niche.
Hilary: I equally love Cat Cohen. I love Cat Cohen and everything Cat Cohen does. I can’t tell if she’s just New York famous — I mean, she has a Netflix special.
Jacob: That's not nothing.
Hilary: She just finished up her second show at Edinburgh. She’s a musical comedian who hosts a show called Cabernet Cabaret. It’s a weekly cabaret, comedy, whatnot — I’ve been on her show — she’s really funny.
Hilary: She writes poetry that's like, I never thought I'd like poetry in that kind of way, but she writes poetry that makes me feel so seen. But it’s also really funny. It’s just so raw and relevant. You can look up all of it.
Jacob: They will! I’ll link to it.
Jacob: That's, that's really cool. Okay so, the reason we're doing this now is your Frasier variety show next month. Tell me real quickly about that.
Hilary: I’ve always wanted to bring back Frasier Day and so I’m putting together a show to celebrate all things Frasier. The show will be right before the return of Season Two of New Frasier. And, I wanted to get together every artist and performer in New York who is a Frasier freak.
Hilary: On September 10th at Caveat at 9:30pm, we've got Frasier burlesque, we've got Frasier stand up, we've got Frasier fashion, we've got Frasier furniture—we've quite frankly got it all. We’ll have comedians from The Tonight Show, the Drew Barrymore Show… I am giddy, honestly.
Jacob: Hey, Hillary, thank you so much for answering those questions. It was really fun to talk to you.
Hilary: I had a great, that was a wonderful morning for me. Thank you.
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7Q: Hilary Campbell